Purchase dilemna, Subaru Outback vs CX-7...your thoughts on it ?

[pdxa4]

Hi everyone,

We are looking to replace our A4 Avant, with possibly either a Mazda CX-7 or a Subaru Outback...
We test drove both cars over the weekend and they are both impressive...

In particular we are looking at the Grand Touring AWD CX-7 model, or the XT Limited Outback...Both turbo'd engines with good power, both AWD, and both offer good interior space and the usability of a Station Wagon/SUV trunk space/folding rear seats for those Ikea runs.
Car would be Auto as my wife would be driving it during the week, but this car would be our roadtrip hauler also...

No kids yet, but we hope to have startoff in the next year.

Anyway just wanted to hear from other voices of reason the merits or faults of either car...

Much appreciated, thanks

[satz]

I too considered the Sube Outback, for about 5 minutes! Nicely built car, but I felt the interior was a little claustrophobic, and the whole design was a bit dated.

The 3.0litre 6 cylinder might be better than a 2.3 turbo for general driving (and economy), but I went with the style and panache of the CX7!

cheers

Satz

[astraelraen]

We have a Legacy and a CX7. Although we didn't test an outback when we got the legacy, doesn't the outback have a little higher/looser suspension? In my opinion the CX7 handles excellently for a 4000lb SUV with almost no body roll for a vehicle of its size. I would say that it handles as good if not better than my wife's Legacy, and I would guess better than an Outback as well.

The Subaru AWD system is pretty impressive and I think drives completely differently than the CX7 AWD, but after doing a bunch of controlled slides in the snow here the CX7 definately has a capable AWD system. I think I prefer the Subaru system in terms of daily driving though.

Either would be awesome vehicles!

[MAZOOM]

I like the interior a lot.

I would take a CX-7 for value, and the powertrain, looks, drive.

A fully equipped CX-7 comes in at thousands less(4K less), given that you can it under or at invoice like most.

[shadow1]

The Outback has the superior AWD system. The CX7 will be way sportier in regards to handling and braking. The Outback will be quicker especially if you get the turbo 2.5L motor. Drive both and see which one you like.

[katie]

I hated the Outbacks until I actually sat in one at the dealership and they are very nice. But I don't thikn I would ever drive one. My husband really likes them, and considered buying one but would prefer the Forester over the Outback.

Either way, you are getting an awesome car for the money. It all depends on what you are looking for. I think you may be able to haul a bit more with the CX7 and I think it would be easier to put children in the backseat of the CX7 as you are not bending down so much to put them in the Outback. But the Outback will probably get better gas mileage.

Either way, you'll be in a car that you'll end up loving.

[erhayes]

I drive a CX7 and had a Subaru Forester 2000. My opinion is more from a quality & engineering perspective. I feel the Subaru is slightly higher quality throughout. The Subaru has a far more advanced AWD system in which all 4 wheels are always driving and power is shifting front to back and visa versa depending on road conditions. The CX 7 is a 100% front driver until the front wheels lose traction and only then is power transfered to the rear. Just my observations from having owned the Subaru for 127,000 miles without ever needing to return to the dealer for anything. My CX7 is a joy to drive and handles better than the Forester. Both great cars but, if I was going to keep my vehicle to 125,000 + miles I would get the Subaru if it fits your lifestyle. JMO. Ed

[MAZOOM]

I drive a CX7 and had a Subaru Forester 2000. My opinion is more from a quality & engineering perspective. I feel the Subaru is slightly higher quality throughout. The Subaru has a far more advanced AWD system in which all 4 wheels are always driving and power is shifting front to back and visa versa depending on road conditions. The CX 7 is a 100% front driver until the front wheels lose traction and only then is power transfered to the rear. Just my observations from having owned the Subaru for 127,000 miles without ever needing to return to the dealer for anything. My CX7 is a joy to drive and handles better than the Forester. Both great cars but, if I was going to keep my vehicle to 125,000 + miles I would get the Subaru if it fits your lifestyle. JMO. Ed
The AWD is fully variable, not reactive.

[shadow1]

Subaru has 2 variations of their AWD. Both are superior to the CX7. In manual tranny cars (excluding the STi which has it's own setup), there is a simple but very effective viscous limited slip center differential with a 50:50 power split front and rear. Having driven a very similar setup in my old Eclipse GSX, this setup kicks butt in bad weather including snow. In auto tranny Subies, there is an electromechanical clutch pack which normally splits power 40:60 front:rear. It varies power depending on conditions. But unlike the CX7, all 4 wheels are driven all the time. It makes a difference in bad weather compared to a system like the CX7 that is 100% FWD until it slips, then it diverts some power rearward, then goes back to FWD. A lot of crossover SUVs have similar setups - CRV, Pilot, Highlander, RAV4, etc. The Mazdaspeed 6 has the same system as well. It is for this reason that the Speed 6 will never achieve the same level of performance that both the STi and Evo have.

[trideepgogoi]

Subaru has 2 variations of their AWD. Both are superior to the CX7. In manual tranny cars (excluding the STi which has it's own setup), there is a simple but very effective viscous limited slip center differential with a 50:50 power split front and rear. Having driven a very similar setup in my old Eclipse GSX, this setup kicks butt in bad weather including snow. In auto tranny Subies, there is an electromechanical clutch pack which normally splits power 40:60 front:rear. It varies power depending on conditions. But unlike the CX7, all 4 wheels are driven all the time. It makes a difference in bad weather compared to a system like the CX7 that is 100% FWD until it slips, then it diverts some power rearward, then goes back to FWD. A lot of crossover SUVs have similar setups - CRV, Pilot, Highlander, RAV4, etc. The Mazdaspeed 6 has the same system as well. It is for this reason that the Speed 6 will never achieve the same level of performance that both the STi and Evo have.

Its not Just when it slips. The AWD will activate when the car feels that you need the traction. Its very different from the "Only slip" AWD systems.

[MAZOOM]

Yeah, if the AWD on the MS6 was an "only slip" system it would have nasty torque steer, just like the RAV4 AWD, but it doesn't.

[erhayes]

You have no nasty torque steer because Mazda knew their AWD had it and put in traction control to limit power during hard acceleration. The Mazda AWD is FWD untill a torque difference (front wheel slipage) occures and then transfers power. Ed

[MAZOOM]

No, on the MS6 the AWD is always getting power at the rear wheels, ask some of the MS6 guys, with the AWD disabled, the steering wheel was getting ripped from their hands.

[shadow1]

So when does the car feel that you need traction?

[MAZOOM]

Hard acceleration, cornering, limited traction.

(0%) only occurs during slow parking lot crawling and when the hand brake is applied

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/danger00007/ATSAWD.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/danger00007/ActiveAWD.jpg

This is the same FoMoCo AWD from the S80, S40, XC90 and so on... they're the same with few differences between them all, like the MS6 and CX-7, the CX-7's AWD system is mounted much better than the MS6's AWD system, but the way they operate is the same.

[shadow1]

Interesting info. However, the CX7 AWD setup is designed for safety rather than performance. AWD setups in the Evo and STi are quite different. They are designed to get the vehicle around a corner as quickly as possible. They never cut fuel or apply brakes unlike the CX7. Not bashing the CX7, it is just a totally different setup. I do prefer the CX7 AWD to my old Ridgeline AWD (same system in the Pilot). The Honda setup was incredibly FWD biased. Short of hitting the VTM4 lock button (which manually engaged the rear axle at low speeds), the ECU rarely engaged the rear axle. Snow and mud performance really sucked in the Ridgeline.

[MAZOOM]

The DSC is what slams on the brakes in the CX-7, it's designed for safety, not the AWD, the AWD programming is definitely different(says the CX-7 engineer) from that of the MS6, as is the DSC, but it's still there for the performance aspect. Overseas they reprogram the DSC for less intrusion which says a lot about the way our's was designed.

You can't really compare the fuel issues either, the way the fuel is delievered is totally different, the only engine that can remotely be compared is the FSI, which also hits fuel cut.

[mikomi]

DSC is supposed to kick in during cornering to help reduce understeer. I think it's supposed to kick in also during oversteer? and and stop you from getting into a fishtail. I know I started going into a fishtail once but a few moments later, the car was correcting itself in a hurry, which was the oddest feeling ever because I've never experienced it before. If I were in a non-AWD car, I know 100% I was going into a fishtail in that situation.

Maybe someone can try it out... :P... but the DSC works in stages, or should. On the RX-8 it works like this:

Small errors: DSC ignores small errors (some understeer)
Bigger errors: DSC will apply 1 or more brakes to balance the car out if you continue understeering.
Going nuts: DSC will also cut the throttle if it's braking measures don't work.

I think that's how it works on the CX-7. On some reviews, some reviewers noted they had some leeway in going gung-ho on cornering before the nannies kicked in, so I assume from this anecdotal evidence that the CX-7's DSC is similar to the RX-8's.

[erhayes]

The picture says it all. The CX7 is either 100 % fwd or 50/50. The default setup is 100/0. Subaru default is 60/40 or 40/60 with the standard Forester or Impresa.

[MAZOOM]

(0%) only occurs during slow parking lot crawling and when the hand brake is applied

It doesn't say either or, it's 100:0 up to 50:50

[CX-7SOW]

CX-7 .... Hubbie and I rented an outback for vacation a couple of years ago, why beat up our cars on a road trip, neither one of us could hardly straighten up after several hours sitting in it kid you not I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs after the first day. Got great gas mileage though.

[shadow1]

DSC is supposed to kick in during cornering to help reduce understeer. I think it's supposed to kick in also during oversteer? and and stop you from getting into a fishtail. I know I started going into a fishtail once but a few moments later, the car was correcting itself in a hurry, which was the oddest feeling ever because I've never experienced it before. If I were in a non-AWD car, I know 100% I was going into a fishtail in that situation.

Maybe someone can try it out... :P... but the DSC works in stages, or should. On the RX-8 it works like this:

Small errors: DSC ignores small errors (some understeer)
Bigger errors: DSC will apply 1 or more brakes to balance the car out if you continue understeering.
Going nuts: DSC will also cut the throttle if it's braking measures don't work.

I think that's how it works on the CX-7. On some reviews, some reviewers noted they had some leeway in going gung-ho on cornering before the nannies kicked in, so I assume from this anecdotal evidence that the CX-7's DSC is similar to the RX-8's.

Incorrect. Understeer is considered "safe" unlike oversteer. The DSC prevents oversteer not understeer. Unfortunately understeer is not the fastest way around a corner.

[pdxa4]

Well we have decided on the CX-7, overall it was the larger interior which won us over.
I have also read many posts on the Legacy forums which don't recommend the Auto trans on the XT model...

Only issue now is trying to get a decent trade-in price on our car which is not currently happening, so we may have to sell it privately which will take much longer...No problems getting deals on new CX-7's, but I just hate the separate departments within dealers for sticking with wholesale pricing, ugg...

[mikomi]

Incorrect. Understeer is considered "safe" unlike oversteer. The DSC prevents oversteer not under-steer. Unfortunately understeer is not the fastest way around a corner.

I don't think it's really "safe". Going straight out of a turn instead of going with the turn is fairly unsafe. I guess relatively safe compared to an over-steer is possible... but they're both situations you want to avoid anyway.

DSC works on both under-steer and over-steer conditions. I never mentioned over-steer but I should have. I just remembered there's a video from Mazda that illustrates the function of the DSC under under-steer and over-steer: Mazda http://4a.mazda.com/product/cx7/safety.html

Also, I was wrong about assuming the CX-7's DSC operated in the same way as the RX-8's DSC. Whereas in the RX-8 the DSC cuts throttle as a last resort, on the CX-7 it's a first resort. :(

Under-steer > DSC operation > Engine Torque Down (Cutting throttle) > Apply Inside Brakes

Over-steer > DSC operation > Apply Outside Breaks

[AWmustang]

It cuts throttle in an over steer situation as well. Though I've only gotten it to really do that in snowing conditions. So maybe it was the traction control system cutting the throttle to limit wheel spin. Hard to separate these two functions.

[Alpha Wolf]

We have a turbo Baja and a cx7. As the Baja is an outback with a bed vs a stationwagon back in I can address them both.

Very different vehicles.

If you are mainly into street driving and like strong brakes, great handling, no roll on turns, powerful brakes and do not mind a ruffer ride so you can feel what the car is doing the CX7 is better. The CX has more head room, leg room and shoulder room than the Outback and is much easier to get into and out of if you are tall like me.

If you are going to go on long drives up gravel roads, dirt roads, through fields etc the Outback is bomb. It will just soak up bumps and go.. The mud flaps actually work to protect the doors from chips where the front ones on the CX are pretty useless at this. The Outback will ride much smoother. The new ones now have the 6 vs. the turbo 4 we have. No computer restricting throttle or boost. It will go when you hit it. Gets about 2mpg more than my CX7 on the highway.

Our Baja has a 5 speed vs. the 6 speed iin the CX. The Subaru rides much smoother and just eliminates bumps... Rally car vs. Sports car suspension differences.

The Subaru will cost you more to buy more than likely.

Both are good cars. Buy booth! like we did and enjoy the best of both worlds. If not, pick the one that best suits your needs and expectations