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MAZOOM
02-11-2009, 04:05 AM
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212207175.shtml


Surprising, but not really considering the huge difference in price, besides the fact that the RDX is just so, so ugly.


Which is better, luxury performance, or classic "Zoom-Zoom"?



Or perhaps more accurately, which of these popular SUV's turned my crank the most after spending back-to-back weeks with them: the Acura RDX or Mazda CX-7?



I drove the Acura RDX first, a vehicle I like very much and which would be on my short list if I were looking for a machine in this class. It's a little higher end than the Mazda CX-7, with more technology and stuff. Naturally, it's also a few grand dearer.


Not that the CX-7 is some kind of dinosaur. I had fond memories of it as well, having taken one on quick (and I mean quick!) trip a year or so back, a drive and a vehicle that both were most enjoyable. The CX-7 would also be on my short list, though going into the test I was leaning more toward the Acura if for no other reason than I'd had a little more seat time in it and also preferred its higher end ELS audio system that lets me play my DVD-Audio "snob discs".


It's a fair matchup so far as power plants are concerned. Both vehicles feature turbocharged 2.3 liter four cylinder engines. The RDX's is an i-VTEC unit the company rates at 240 horsepower @ 6000 rpm and 260 lbs.-ft. of torque @ 4500 rpm. Decent figures and, as I remembered from my drive up the Pacific Coast Highway North from San Francisco when the model was introduced, they helped contribute to an SUV that's plenty of fun to drive.


Mazda rates the CX-7's direct injection turbo four at 244 horses @ 5000 rpm with 258 lbs.-ft. of torque @ 2500 rpm, also decent figures. Let's call it a draw: the Mazda's extra four horses won't bring the apocalypse and the Acura's two foot pounds (at higher revs) don't show too much extra oomph when you pound your right foot to the floor.
Needless to say, both vehicles are fun to drive. Alas, both also want to drink premium unleaded fuel, which will add to your cost of ownership (but pay off in performance).



The Mazda wins the transmission battle, kind of, with its six speed automatic giving a one "gear" advantage over the Acura. On the other hand, the Acura has steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters for manual mode, which always beats having to move your hand over to the shift lever as in the Mazda.



During my two weeks with the vehicles I had to give the tranny advantage to the Acura despite its having only five speeds. This was clearly because of the paddle shifters: my time with both vehicles came during bitterly cold weather with roads that were either snow covered and slippery or ice-covered and slipperier. The paddles gave greater control by letting me shift while keeping my hands on the steering wheel.


The RDX also features Acura's SH-AWD "super handling" all wheel drive system that directs driving energy between the front and rear wheels, as well as sending it to the outside rear wheel in cornering. The CX-7, which is also available in a front wheel drive variant, wasn't quite up to the Acura's snuff on the crummy roads of my test, but the AWD of my test unit came close enough that I'd call it a near draw: both vehicles performed beautifully and I never, ever thought they were anything less than safe and secure regardless of the driving conditions. I'd be happy driving either vehicle any time.


I was happier driving the CX-7 from a standing start, though. While neither turbocharged engine suffered from a lot of turbo lag, the Mazda was smoother from the get-go; the Acura tended to hesitate just a tad before zipping ahead with wild abandon.

So the Mazda gets the smoothness prize - and wins by a nose on "Zoom-Zoom".
Both vehicles feature independent suspension all around (struts up front with multi-link buttocks), as well as four wheel disc brakes with ABS and power rack and pinion steering. They also offer the usual electronic nannies such as traction control, though neither was particularly intrusive even on slippery road surfaces.



Each vehicle can hold five people in two rows of seats, with power-adjusted driver's seats that are extremely comfortable, though the RDX's are a tad more luxurious. The front seats of both vehicles also feature bun warmers. The Acura's steering wheel tilts and telescopes while the Mazda's only tilts, but I had no trouble finding the perfect driving position in either SUV.


Well, almost. The Mazda has slightly better seating positing, since I found the Acura's a tad too high up front under my thighs.
Getting into the CX-7 was easier than the Acura, thanks to the Mazda's keyless entry and start system that lets you leave the fob in your pocket. And while I don't like red gauges, which I find hard to read, I have to give the Mazda higher marks for its instrumentation and interfaces thanks to its simplicity of design and operation.



The Acura does more (my test unit, for example, had a navigation system the Mazda lacked, though it's optional) but you have to learn an intimidating number of buttons, knobs and things that fill the center stack.

The Acura's audio system is better than the Mazda's, though my favorite version of Acura's terrific ELS system is still the one in the last generation TL. I haven't tried the new TL yet so can't comment on its system, but I certainly look forward to it.
On a purely subjective note, while both vehicles are handsome, I think the CX-7's sporty aerodynamics look better than the more blocky RDX, though I wouldn't kick either out of my garage.



Both vehicles provided comfortable and enjoyable driving and hauling capability, and both were fun on the slippery roads. The electronic nannies help prevent you from doing anything really stupid, but I was pleased to note they give you enough leeway to have a little bit of fun in either vehicle. Again, I give the edge to the Acura for its paddle shifters, but other than that they were very close.


The Acura RDX starts at $33,895 U.S./$41,400 Cdn. The Mazda CX-7 starts at $24,570 U.S. /$29,995 Cdn). Adding AWD to the Mazda costs about $1,700 U.S./$2,000 Canadian.


The CX-7 GT, the higher end trim level that brings the Mazda closer to the Acura's level of toys and tools, starts at $27,370 U.S./$35,695 Cdn. The Technology package adds about $3300 U.S./$3700 Cdn. to the price of the Acura.
Pricing my test units as closely as possible, taking into account differences in trim levels and options and Canadian/U.S. availability, my test RDX should cost about $37,195 U.S./$45,100 Canadian, while my test CX-7 would list at about $29,070 U.S./$37,695 Canadian.


My bottom line? While I'd be happy owning either of these vehicles, I'd be willing to give up the ELS audio and the paddle shifters to get the "Zoom-Zoom" the CX-7 has in spades - and save a few grand in the process. The Mazda isn't quite as luxurious or well appointed as the RDX, though you can option it up very nicely indeed. But, perhaps because it's a slightly newer design, I came away from my comparison more in lust with the CX-7 than with the also-excellent Acura RDX.
Having been a fan of the RDX since day one, I didn't think that would happen. Go figure.

Raider
02-11-2009, 07:16 AM
Yeah.

The Acura RDX starts at $33,895 U.S./$41,400 Cdn. The Mazda CX-7 starts at $24,570 U.S. /$29,995 Cdn). Adding AWD to the Mazda costs about $1,700 U.S./$2,000 Canadian.

So you can get a fully friggin loaded CX-7, or a base RDX. Yeah, that is a head's up comparison.

mikomi
02-11-2009, 07:37 AM
Thing is, Acura is not a luxury brand, it's still a sub-luxury brand.

Cue
02-11-2009, 04:33 PM
My Dad is getting an RDX in the next couple of months. Can't wait to drive it around.

MAZOOM
02-11-2009, 04:38 PM
The 2010 will get the Acura shield, which makes it look even worse IMO.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-hiXFM1w2jo/STbkwAnUyKI/AAAAAAAABG8/cZpr6j7Eqao/s1600/new-acura-rdx.jpg
And yeah, Acura is no Audi/BMW. They're trying but failing.
Looks frumpy

Superstretch18
02-11-2009, 04:57 PM
My Dad is getting an RDX in the next couple of months. Can't wait to drive it around.

Let us know your thoughts on how it drives! Probably no comparison to the modded CX-7, but I'm curious...

Alpha Wolf
02-11-2009, 07:37 PM
My Dad is getting an RDX in the next couple of months. Can't wait to drive it around.

It would be interesting to hear your comparison between the two..

Cue
02-11-2009, 11:49 PM
He's been wanting to get this since November (after my mom got an 08 MDX... solid). But he's waiting for the prices to drop.... He's finding it hard to justify spending 43+k after I picked up my 08 last March for 39k. But he love's the interior of the RDX, and the Acura brand after experiencing the MDX..

BaconNeggs
04-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Yeah.


So you can get a fully friggin loaded CX-7, or a base RDX. Yeah, that is a head's up comparison.

Well most acuras only have one option, nav or no nav, so it is comparable. One of the reasons I like acura, less guesswork, except the new generation looks ugly as hell.

I test drove both before buying mine. I felt the supension was softer and the brakes weaker on the RDX, so I went with the cx7 and saved 10k getting the sport.

Alpha Wolf
04-14-2009, 04:58 PM
Acura = Over priced Hondas... Jazzed up CR-V.
Honda has learned that trick from GM.

And Frugly IMHO.


Not enough head room in them for me. Nor the Lexus either. I had to recline the seat in both when I tested them as my head hit the roof solidly in the normal upright position.

I would like to hear Cue's comments if he can drive it around right after his CX.

MAZOOM
04-15-2009, 06:33 AM
Well most acuras only have one option, nav or no nav, so it is comparable. One of the reasons I like acura, less guesswork, except the new generation looks ugly as hell.

I test drove both before buying mine. I felt the supension was softer and the brakes weaker on the RDX, so I went with the cx7 and saved 10k getting the sport.
The RDX is getting that absolutely nasty shield grille for 2010. Looks way worse now.

Crash
04-15-2009, 08:03 AM
The RDX is a fine car. I personally found it a bit smaller inside - but more refined then the CX7. Handling is good (comparable to the CX7 - not better, not worse, comparable). Speed is better on the Mazda.

However, for the price - there is absolutely no comparison. The RDX (in Canada at least) starts at $37K...get comparable options - that price is well north of $40K...then don't forget to add taxes.

I also found the Acura dealership to be useless. I told them specifically I was shopping around, told them the cars I was looking at (Edge, CX7 and RDX), what I wanted for a trade on my Murano and said I was going to buy in a week or so - I'd pay cash. The dealer never frigging called me back - even to say, hey we can't make it work? Or even some more fact finding? He was almost arogant in his discussions w/ me.

Cue
04-15-2009, 10:53 AM
The more I see these things, the uglier they get. And really, this ain't to justify me having a CX-7 and not an RDX. This is my honest opinion. I was following one (dark bluish purpleish) the other day and really paid attention to it...
With spring here, my dad should be picking up his RDX soon. It's all about price at this point. Then I can compare the ride.

clentg
04-15-2009, 11:06 AM
Agree. Current MDX and RDX exterior design is not good, look so bulky. If we talked about luxury, I want BMW X3:O)

MAZOOM
04-15-2009, 11:18 AM
Yeah for that kind of coin I would step into an Audi Q5/XC60

Superstretch18
04-15-2009, 12:43 PM
I absolutely love the MDX. The RDX, not so much. Something about the aerodynamics (or lack thereof) is a real turn off. If they add the crap-tastic grille treatment that they have done to all the new Acura's, then it'll be even worse.

My uncle has an MDX and that is a very well put together vehicle. I just can't see myself needing something THAT big to drive around every day. Although some people probably say that about the CX-7 too... :)

Alpha Wolf
04-15-2009, 12:51 PM
Oh don't get me wrong. Honda/Acura make quality cars.

I just find them, boring, frugly or way too expensive for what you get.

I have not been one for buying a car and spending too much for what I got so I could brag about how much I wasted on an over priced car to friends and associates. I do know many that do. My buddy bought a Lexus cross over last year just so his wife could have a "Lexus" because the people she worked with all drove Lexus cars/SUVs.

She was shocked when she got in the back of my CX and found dual headrest DVDs. She asked if it came with them. I told her no, I used some of the $15,000 I did not spend on getting a Lexus like hers and had them installed!

CX7vasco
04-15-2009, 02:47 PM
I hate Hondas or Over priced Hondas!!!

ZOM ZOM all THE way...............

CX7vasco
04-15-2009, 02:48 PM
hahah

bscar
04-15-2009, 05:28 PM
BMW offers heated rear seats on their X3. Don't see that in many vehicles yet.

clentg
04-15-2009, 05:33 PM
I love the X3's long hood and the vehicle size overall, among other things:)

Alpha Wolf
04-15-2009, 05:47 PM
I do like the wider rims and tires on the BMW X3/5s.

Still too expensive...

noomsalt
04-15-2009, 08:30 PM
An AWD(all of them) RDX has a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds.

An AWD CX-7 has a 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds.

Considering they are the same weight, pretty much the same engine... I'd say something went seriously wrong in the performance department of Mazda. I don't know what it is but I imagine they tweaked the speed engine waaay to much to try and get the best of all worlds and we are left with poor performance.

MAZOOM
04-16-2009, 01:38 AM
An AWD(all of them) RDX has a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds.

An AWD CX-7 has a 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds.

Considering they are the same weight, pretty much the same engine... I'd say something went seriously wrong in the performance department of Mazda. I don't know what it is but I imagine they tweaked the speed engine waaay to much to try and get the best of all worlds and we are left with poor performance.
6.5sec is done with abuse. low 7's is more like it. And again, the CX-7 has only 10psi in first gear, 12 in second and the full 14.9 in third. So output is limited off the line which is why it's slower in that situation. This is not an excuse, just an explanation. The gearing is short too and it must be shifted 1 more time vs the RDX as well. The author of this article couldn't even tell the difference and preferred the less amount of turbo lag from the CX-7.

Cue
04-16-2009, 09:28 AM
The RDX has no pull after 160km/h. I was long driving once and fooled around with an RDX for about 1/2 an hour. Slow down, speed up, and so on. Everytime we punched it, whether he got on the throttle first or I did, around 160km/h, I would start gaining on him....

Then he had to pull off into the upcoming city.....

MAZOOM
04-16-2009, 09:40 AM
The RDX has no pull after 160km/h. I was long driving once and fooled around with an RDX for about 1/2 an hour. Slow down, speed up, and so on. Everytime we punched it, whether he got on the throttle first or I did, around 160km/h, I would start gaining on him....

Then he had to pull off into the upcoming city.....
How heavily modded we're you @ the time?

Superstretch18
04-16-2009, 11:01 AM
An AWD(all of them) RDX has a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds.

An AWD CX-7 has a 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds.

Considering they are the same weight, pretty much the same engine... I'd say something went seriously wrong in the performance department of Mazda. I don't know what it is but I imagine they tweaked the speed engine waaay to much to try and get the best of all worlds and we are left with poor performance.

These results are probably more realistic:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0610_crossover_comparison/specs_pricing.html

Cue
04-16-2009, 12:04 PM
How heavily modded we're you @ the time?

Intake, Intercooler, CBE if I remember correctly. This was last summer.

MAZOOM
04-16-2009, 12:11 PM
That had to be embarrassing. Most RDX owners I've come in contact with are pretty snobby towards the CX-7 because the RDX is way faster and better.

Cue
04-16-2009, 03:34 PM
...lol... That's my goal. There's an RDX in my neibourhood that's always zippin' around. I would love to line up with him and leave him behind me.... Unless he's chipped :o

on that topic, my brother put his stock tires back on his MS3, and we drove around our little outskirt highway. Very interesting...

from 40km/h to about 110km/h, I was ohh so slowly gaining on him, from 110km/h to about 150 km/h he ohh so slowly got back in line with me.... after 160km/h, he started gaining on me... One more mod (inlet), maybe I can beat to 160km/h. He just has a CAI installed right now. But I think I'm done for power mods. yesterday completely satisfied me with my car.

Mike's CX-7
04-16-2009, 09:23 PM
An AWD(all of them) RDX has a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds.

An AWD CX-7 has a 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds.

Considering they are the same weight, pretty much the same engine... I'd say something went seriously wrong in the performance department of Mazda. I don't know what it is but I imagine they tweaked the speed engine waaay to much to try and get the best of all worlds and we are left with poor performance.

My CX-7 has a 0-60 of ~5.5 so the RDX can suck it. One in my area learned a hard lesson and now drives like he's rollin' over broken glass.

CX-7 = Sexier, more fun, way less expensive, and lovin' the mods.

Cue
04-16-2009, 09:44 PM
My CX-7 has a 0-60 of ~5.5 so the RDX can suck it.

Are you basing this off your QM logs??? If so, I'd run an actual 0-60 log to verify this. Last I remember, I run in the mid 6's. If not, I'd love to see your log showing 5.5 cause that's crazy fast considering G37's are low 5's...

noomsalt
04-17-2009, 03:32 PM
I though you were running mid 8's?

There is no way I believe a 5.5. I'd have to see it to believe it. Take that baby to the track you'll be a star.

Mike's CX-7
04-17-2009, 11:55 PM
Are you basing this off your QM logs??? If so, I'd run an actual 0-60 log to verify this. Last I remember, I run in the mid 6's. If not, I'd love to see your log showing 5.5 cause that's crazy fast considering G37's are low 5's...

Yes off my QM runs... but it is fair to ask for a 0-60 run so I'll have to do that. Then my question would be why isn't the QM reliable for at least a good estimate on the 0-60? If it is not, then how can it be reliable at all for a QM time or anything else?

Below is my best run to date - QM, not 0-60... but the red line indicates as close as I can get to 60 on the graph (59.5), which is just under 5.5 sec.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1807/025qm1396bs21sbm2manual.png

I'll post a 0-60 as soon as I can get time to do it.

Cue
04-18-2009, 03:25 AM
Yes off my QM runs... but it is fair to ask for a 0-60 run so I'll have to do that. Then my question would be why isn't the QM reliable for at least a good estimate on the 0-60? If it is not, then how can it be reliable at all for a QM time or anything else?

Below is my best run to date - QM, not 0-60... but the red line indicates as close as I can get to 60 on the graph (59.5), which is just under 5.5 sec.


I'll post a 0-60 as soon as I can get time to do it.

I went through all my QM logs, and they look very similar to yours (around 5.5 at the 60mph mark). When I did an actual 0-60, different results. Odd..!!??

MAZOOM
04-18-2009, 05:45 AM
I believe if you get any wheelspin at all DH runs aren't that accurate, and the speedo is off a couple mph.

Mike's CX-7
04-18-2009, 01:36 PM
Although I have plenty of runs with wheel spin - that isn't one of them. That was a near perfect run, no wheel spin, TCS off, torque braked till 3K before launch and it was a cool ~42 degrees out that night. Only thing I didn't like was that I didn't shift fast enough into 2nd - so it went to 6K.

Supposed to be 50 degrees out tonight, so I'll try to get a 0-60 in then. ...but I suspect - like Cue said - that it will be slower than 5.5, because something is up. If it is not reasonably close to 5.5 with a similar run, then MSD DashHawk has some 'splaining to do.

Mike's CX-7
04-19-2009, 03:58 AM
Okay did a few runs and although everything was against me tonight, I still did a 0-60 in 5.67 ...which means my DashHawk is either dead on, or in whatever way it is off - it is off in the same way for every run (regardless of 0-60, 0-100km, QM, etc.) ...I'll stick with the former.

Below is my last of 3 runs tonight. It didn't get to 50 degrees, yet... it was still early and 62 degrees when I ran these and by the 3rd run (below) I had a BAT of 132 at launch.

Plus I was sittin' for a while in idle waiting for an opportunity. Intake temp on the 3rd run (below) was 78 at launch.

Plus I'm very low on fuel and was cuttin' on the first two runs. I even forgot to turn off TCS on the first one. :rolleyes:

...and I had wheel spin on the first two runs, probably because the tires weren't warmed up yet (I live like two minutes from where I run.)

Given all that, I stand by my QM run and 0-60 in that run. Under 5.5 is not only very possible I've done it.

But, 5.67 is the best I could do tonight. This run had no wheel slip, TCS was off, Torque brake to 3K... I still didn't shift out of 1st fast enough and it held to 6K (which is really starting to piss me off), but good enough to prove my point:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6537/0030567sbm2manualrecord.png

Cue
04-19-2009, 01:35 PM
...Ha ha... finally embarrased an RDX. Was driving home last night, and out of nowhere, this blue RDX zips right be me to get in front of me to the only open 1 lane at the light. So of course as he gets beside me, I try to punch it, but was too late, and he got in front of me on time. So at the light I'm behind him, it goes green, he floors it, I floor it, and right off first and I'm already beside him (after a lane change). second... well, he didn't know WTF just happened. He gave up when we got to about 100km.

Mike... Nice run.. It's been a while since I've done these. I'm gonna try a few again and see what I post. I just using 'launches', specially for 0-60. Seeing this is extremely hard on our transmissions, I only do them when I've made some changes to my maps, or when I need to convince myself that my car hasn't slowed down (from getting used to it)

MAZOOM
04-19-2009, 02:30 PM
LOL nice!!!
I just snatched up a dashhawk so I'll be able to compare and whatever..

Mike are you updated to the latest software version?

Cue
04-19-2009, 03:14 PM
Okay did a few runs and although everything was against me tonight, I still did a 0-60 in 5.67 ...which means my DashHawk is either dead on, or in whatever way it is off - it is off in the same way for every run (regardless of 0-60, 0-100km, QM, etc.) ...I'll stick with the former.

Below is my last of 3 runs tonight. It didn't get to 50 degrees, yet... it was still early and 62 degrees when I ran these and by the 3rd run (below) I had a BAT of 132 at launch.

Plus I was sittin' for a while in idle waiting for an opportunity. Intake temp on the 3rd run (below) was 78 at launch.

Plus I'm very low on fuel and was cuttin' on the first two runs. I even forgot to turn off TCS on the first one. :rolleyes:

...and I had wheel spin on the first two runs, probably because the tires weren't warmed up yet (I live like two minutes from where I run.)

Given all that, I stand by my QM run and 0-60 in that run. Under 5.5 is not only very possible I've done it.

But, 5.67 is the best I could do tonight. This run had no wheel slip, TCS was off, Torque brake to 3K... I still didn't shift out of 1st fast enough and it held to 6K (which is really starting to piss me off), but good enough to prove my point:

I guess your right... I ran a 0-60 just now (124 bat), and ran a 5.86, and a 5.94. I just may try again tonight.

[QUOTE=MAZOOM;50186]LOL nice!!!
I just snatched up a dashhawk so I'll be able to compare and whatever..

Mike are you updated to the latest software version?

Did u get a good deal?

MAZOOM
04-19-2009, 04:31 PM
$180

Mike's CX-7
04-19-2009, 08:01 PM
...Mike are you updated to the latest software version?

But of course.

MAZOOM
04-19-2009, 08:06 PM
After reading up on the DH acceleration times they're really generous. I'd add at least .5 to .7, from reading various threads on actual drag strip times vs DH times.

Mike's CX-7
04-19-2009, 08:10 PM
After reading up on the DH acceleration times they're really generous. I'd add at least .5 to .7, from reading various threads on actual drag strip times vs DH times.

Perhaps, but that would still put me under 6 at my best run to-date... and I'm happy with that. ...until I get the "itch" again. (The turbo inlet ain't helpin' that.)

MAZOOM
04-19-2009, 08:21 PM
Honestly the best way to test accuracy in anyones specific case would be to take it to a strip.

Cue
04-19-2009, 08:53 PM
Indeed... This summer for sure I'll take mine.

Dave
04-21-2009, 03:48 PM
These results are probably more realistic:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0610_crossover_comparison/specs_pricing.html

It's really interesting to see how close the CX-7 and RDX are matched in most categories from engine displacement, wieght, interior room, etc until you get to price!!!

Alpha Wolf
04-21-2009, 05:52 PM
Honestly the best way to test accuracy in anyones specific case would be to take it to a strip.

Yes but even there there are altitude and temperature variables that will make the ET's different at different tracks.

Alpha Wolf
04-21-2009, 05:59 PM
It's really interesting to see how close the CX-7 and RDX are matched in most categories from engine displacement, wieght, interior room, etc until you get to price!!!

Well for me that is the over all deciding factor.

Is the Acura going to do anything my CX does so much better it justifies $10,000 extra cost? My answer was a resounding NO!

And the Acura is just freaking ugly... Who is doing the designs for Honda these days? Blind men?